Thursday, March 31, 2005

MSM, IDU, and HIV / AIDS

dukkillr read this and wrote about it on his website. Below is that Daily Limit post, including an HIV/AIDS epidemiologist's italicized comments. I know that I'm Sean Penning this issue, but I feel that Mr. Dukkillr made some poor conclusions from the data - my two cents couldn't change his view, so maybe the words of an expert will:

44% of AIDS (HIV and AIDS combined) cases (are presumed to) come directly from gay sex, 16% come from IV drug use, and 4% of infections come from both (both as defined by someone who both injects drugs and is a MSM [Man who has Sex with Men]). 34% come from heterosexual intercourse, but that intercourse is with a "High Risk" individual. What constitutes a "High Risk" individual? Individuals who have had past gay relationships and/or were an IV drug user. (this is also not 100% true, because the true definition includes heterosexual contact with a person known to be HIV positive regardless of their risk for infection, sex with an IDU [Injection Drug Use], sex with a bisexual male, or sex with transfusion/transplant recipient with HIV)

So only 2% of AIDS cases come from "other"� places such as getting infected platelets (Ryan White was infected this way) or "dirty sticks" in the healthcare field (a constant concern while I was working in the hospital). (dirty sticks are extremely low risk, there is very little chance that a person will become infected with HIV via needlestick, Hep B maybe, but not HIV. Some of the reduction in the number of cases associated with any type of contamination is due to the existence of pep and improved testing of blood banks, etc. Because these numbers are cumulative numbers divided by risk they will naturally become a smaller proportion of the cases as time progresses and measures are taken to prevent such infections. This is a simple intervention and has obviously been more effective here then in other areas of the world where hospital acquired HIV remains a problem.)

So to summarize:

98% of AIDS cases in the US = from risky behavior. (While this may appear true with these statistics it isn't completely true because while the original source for the heterosexual cases may have been IV drug defining the secondary infection was via heterosexual contact.)

"Risky Behavior" = Using IV drugs, having homosexual intercourse, or having heterosexual intercourse with someone who uses IV drugs or has homosexual intercourse.
(or having unprotected sex with someone whose infection status you do not know or someone who doesn't know their status. The definition of risky behavior seems to be rather judgemental. All people are responsible for themselves and themselves alone, we can not completely control the actions of our partners and what we don't know can hurt us.)

AIDS cases caused by homosexual contact outnumber the infections by IV drug use by a 3:1 ratio.

2% of AIDS cases in the U.S. = bad luck. (or unsafe procedural action)

Key Point: If we assume that the disease is a "gay and IDU disease" then we will not adequately protect ourselves from infection. It is not difficult to imagine that as the disease becomes more prevalent in the heterosexual community (as the current statistics nearly everywhere indicate) even currently monogamous relationships could encounter the disease through behaviors from previous partners. The old adage that says "when you have sex with someone you have sex with all of their previous partners and their partners, etc." is relatively accurate at least for diseases that remain active for a lifetime. It is crazy to believe that the disease is only a disease for any group, because the possibility of cross-over is likely. There are always people secretly or openly playing on both sides of the "plate." I would also like to reiterate that the statistics he is quoting are likely based on estimations that redistribute risk (i.e. move those whose risk is unknown into categories based on historical proportions) which could potentially overinflate those groups which have been historically over-represented.

5 comments:

dukkillr said...

Fine, I don't disagree with what you added. I'm somewhat lost as to the point. I'm sure you have a strong enough grasp on statistics to approximate the errors you perceive. For instance you could undoubtedly approximate the other categories included in "high risk". I doubt seriously if inclusion of "sex with transfusion/transplant recipient with HIV" makes a significant difference to the overall point.

You also said, "or having unprotected sex with someone whose infection status you do not know or someone who doesn't know their status. The definition of risky behavior seems to be rather judgemental [sic]. All people are responsible for themselves and themselves alone, we can not completely control the actions of our partners and what we don't know can hurt us." I would argue that in being responsible for yourself alone you should be confident in the safety of those you choose to have unprotected sex with.

You also omitted a portion of my post I consider to be important, "Now, does this mean we should hate gays or leave AIDS victims to die? OF COURSE NOT! I'm simply trying to point out what the truth is. The truth is that AIDS in America is still very much a gay disease despite the PC police’s best efforts to convince us otherwise."

I suspect that your response is based more on fear of discrimination rather than what you see as my scientific inaccuracy, of course that's just a guess. That being said, even granting each of your objections I believe my thesis of “[AIDS is] a gay and IV drug users disease), is accurate.

I sympathize with your point, “If we assume that the disease is a ‘gay and IDU disease’ then we will not adequately protect ourselves from infection.” but I don’t believe that makes what I said wrong. Nor do I believe the readers of my blog will behave more risky after learning the statistics cited above. If they do, they “… are responsible for themselves and themselves alone…” and I respect their decision to engage in risky behavior. Nothing in what I wrote said unprotected sex (or any sex for that matter) was risk free, nor should an educated reader see that in it.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I mean. Wow. Check out http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/2003SurveillanceReport/table1.htm. Add up the total 2003 cases that are not classified male/male. That number is less than the total number of non-homosexual cases. Second point with disease in the U.S., the concern at this point should not be who has the disease but who is getting the disease within a specified time period (prevalence versus incidence). Check this out: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/2003SurveillanceReport/table3.htm. Note that the greatest increases are not in homosexual categories but in both male and female heterosexual contact - specifically the female increases...which is becoming the face of HIV/AIDS in the US and worldwide.

To say this “[AIDS is] a gay and IV drug users disease), is accurate", I don't understand. It is to disease localized to the gay population is wrong. To say it is only transmissable in gays is wrong.

It's not about being PC. It about reading what the data and number say.

Heather

dukkillr said...

I'm now using Heather's numbers:

2003 Total Cases = 31886
2003 Male Cases = 14532 (72.6%)
2003 Female Cases = 8733 (27.4%)
Total Male/Male Cases = 14532 (45.6%)
Total IV Drug Cases = 4817 (15.1%)
Total Drugs and M/M = 1224 (3.8%)
Total Hetero = 10983 (34.4%)
Total Other = 331 (1.0%)

Total IV, M/M, or Both = 20573 (64.5%)

Now the above numbers come from Heather's source but are almost identical to the results I calculated (also from CDC data). The only notable difference is that Heather's numbers don't include a sub-category for "Heterosexual Contact with High Risk Persons" despite that category making up the overwhelming majority of heterosexual cases. The CDC definition of High Risk Persons? "High-risk heterosexual contact is defined as sexual contact with someone of the opposite sex known to have HIV/AIDS or at least one other HIV risk factor: men having sex with other men, injection drug use or hemophilia."

So here's where there's room to have some disagreements. It's possible that the 34% of hetero cases (cited from the CDC data in my initial piece) are disproportionately from having sex with hemophiliacs. Since we've already pointed out that a significant majority of HIV/AIDS cases come from Homosexual Intercourse, IV drug use, or both, I suspect those make up the majority of the 34% "high risk" as well. I may be wrong here, it is just a guess, although I consider it to be a reasonable one.

Please cite where I said, "[HIV/AIDS] is only transmissable [sic] in gays..." I doubt I said that because I'm aware HIV/AIDS is transmissible among anyone.

Please cite where I said, "[HIV/AIDS] is a disease localized to the gay population..." I doubt I said that because I'm aware HIV/AIDS is present in the heterosexual community in increasing numbers.

I believe I have accurately read the data and correctly interpreted what the numbers say.

On an entirely different note, the data both you and I cite is gathered in only 32 states, not including any west coast states and only New Jersey from New England. My guess is the inclusion of California and New York would effect the data, but I could be wrong.

I am aware that the picture painted of HIV/AIDS in the US is entirely different from that of other countries, particularly the poorer ones.

If the issue is one of public awareness vs. public disclosure just say so. The only reason I can see for this discussion is the idea that we need the general public to fear HIV/AIDS more than they would if they knew the statistics cited above. If that's the case we can agree to disagree, but it wouldn't invalidate those numbers, or my post.

Anonymous said...

The reference for the AIDS comment comes directly from your post. I'm not quite sure where you get the 32 figure but you can check out statehealthfacts.org from Kaiser for specific information each state.

We can bitch and site numbers all we want and manipulate them to fit whatever the argument is. The bottom line is I feel that you think public health officials are making a bigger deal about HIV/AIDS in the heterosexual community than they need to be. Just because "presently" the number of people living with HIV is high among homosexuals, we don't need to campaign and promote prevention in other groups? That is throwing aside trends of increasing number of people in the heterosexual community contracting HIV. In 20 years, if we do not campaign, HIV WILL BE a heterosexual dominated disease. The key is we’re trying to prevent that from happening and the only way to do that is awareness. You can get HIV from heterosexual sex with high risk partners. Be aware of that. Moreover, it’s the implication of new strains (e.g. New York, male heterosexual meth user spread to 15 partners a strain that is resistant to anti-viral therapy and presents with a different clinical course than HIV-1).

The argument is like saying hey, measles only shows up in poor people or immigrants in the U.S. We don't need to vaccinate other groups. Why are doctors making such a big deal about vaccinating my kid? It’s prevention. If we stopped vaccinating against measles, it would come back into the population (e.g. rates of Pertussis in young children have increased over the past couple of years because parents stopped vaccinated…didn’t think they were at risk and boom, their child gets infected).

Beyond that, it the severity of the diseases that warrants this awareness/disclosure. A person will die of AIDS. There is no cure. No vaccine. Nothing. You’re life will be extended but you’ll have severe morbidity due to anti-viral therapy. An analogy is what the U.S. policy on say terroristic attacks. The risk of a bioterroristic attack in the US is tiny. But the implications if an attack happens are catastrophic. So what did the government do? Created awareness (which some may argue that was fear mongering) and started prevention measures.

What I perceive is that you are so concerned that the numbers say one thing and that the public is being unnecessarily alarmed is really short sighted. It’s the same argument that was applied in the early 80s when the AIDS epidemic first was identified. Politicians, epidemiologist, public health officials, and physicians all identified it as a "gay's" disease and refused to address the fact that it could spread to other groups. As Laurie Garrett states in The Coming Plague, if the Reagan administration had acknowledged this simple fact and created policies of prevention, the U.S. would never been in a position as it is today.

Heather

dukkillr said...

I've never argued that the public shouldn't be educated. I love education. I like teaching safe sex in high school so kids have access to accurate information at a time when they are most likely to make mistakes. Nothing I ever said suggested education or public awareness was bad. What I did say was that the truth should be available.

Your statement, "A person will die of AIDS. There is no cure. No vaccine. Nothing." is accurate, and everyone should know that. That's the truth.

Here's an interesting comparison. Ask a woman what's worse to get, breast cancer, or melanoma. They say breast cancer. Why, well because breast cancer's PR is phenomenal. What color is melanoma’s ribbon? What's worse, breast cancer or heart disease (which kills half of all women)? They'll say breast cancer. (I have studies to back this up if you don't believe it.) The point is that sometimes the public awareness doesn’t accurately match reality. I’ve taken part in KC’s AIDS walk twice in the last 10 years, they get the message out there.

Look, AIDS is bad enough, just like breast cancer, that the truth will ensure people take reasonable precautions.

But a comprehensive understanding is always better. When I wrote about the truth you two were up in arms. It wasn't the truth you were at odds with about even though that was the first thing you attacked. It turns out that awareness of that truth was the real hot-button. Implications drawn from that are your, not mine. I'm not some racist dirtball who wants some grounds for claiming that god hates gays. What I am is an educated individual capable of thinking for myself. I want the truth presented so I can make educated decisions in my life. You can disagree. You can believe that the truth hurts your argument. I believe your argument should always be on the side of truth.

Quite honestly this debate has gotten under my skin. Your opening “Wow. I mean. Wow.” made me angry. The implication I drew from that was something along the lines of, “Who could possibly be so stupid as to believe this is right?” Well it is right. It may not be the message you want out there, but it doesn’t make what I wrote wrong.